---

by Incandenza


I wasn't trying to suggest that levels were too high, quite the reverse. What I was saying was that if benefit levels are set at a high level of comfort, the government becomes open to the accusation that they are essentially encouraging promiscuity because child benefits would be more desirable than working. Consequently, political necessity dictates that those benefits are set at subsistence levels and hardship for the families involved.

---

I think the problem is with benefits is that they are set to roughly be the same as the minimum wage. Therefore people who are on them feel that to work for the minimum wage is making them hardly better off at work and therefore feel they "shouldnt" have to. Along with just the cash money people recieve they also get added incentives such as full housing benefit in rented accomodation , Mortgage insurences paid (if youve been unemployed for over a year and held your mortgage before 1992 I think) and free prescriptions, glasses, school dinners, milktokens etc etc it all adds up and to be honest in somecases I think the benefits are too high, or the minimum wage has to be increased.

sorry somewhat off topic although one of the questions was at the start refering to benefits and I must admit the cost of schooldinners at £15 per child a week and free prescriptions and dental treatment etc does add to the "perks" if you can call it that of being unemployed

I would in an instant go back to work, I find working a much easier job that looking after 4 young children.

(this thread is really supposed to be for single parents or children from single parent families to talk together about their experiences, it's diverting a bit now and while the discussion about benefits in general is certainly interesting and worthwhile it might be time to take it to another thread so that the original topic gets the discussion it deserves )

update: Sange has stated a topic about this




(Edited by Julz 10/04/2002 22:27)

---

by Cat
I think chilren need a father figure about. Tho it's still better to have none than a bad father figure. I certainly dont feel deprived in any way.

---

I'm glad to hear you say that

My daughter does see her father, although I can no longer use the word 'regularly' as he has rediscovered the joys of singledom again and is more often than not *too busy* that week (as it was he only sees her for three hours - his choice).

She has no other real father figure in her life (after recent experience of watching her become attached and then get hurt badly over and over again I am quite happy for it to stay that way at the moment) but I often wonder if that will affect her as she grows up, although admittedly it could change at any time. I have many male friends and she may see some of these as father figures.

But her real father is the problem more than anything else. He has become one of those dads that is happy to see her *sometimes*, spend lots on pressies and outings, then disappear (he last saw her before Easter).

Is he still the kind of father she needs in her life? Will the type of behaviour he is showing affect her in later life? Is it better him acting this way than not being around at all?

I would love to hear opinions from those that have been through anything similar

---

by Incandenza
Whilst companies *do* hate paying tax, all you are really doing is to make it less expensive to implement childcare programmes but it will still be a net expense.

And to be honest, I don't agree with your point about the Government. The amount of tax you are talking about is minute as a proportion of the total collected by the Government each year and in any case, if it increased productivity by expanding the workforce, the government would get a commensurate increase in Income Tax.

---

]

Oh how littel you understnad abpout business or goverment.

OK, i know quite a few businesses owners. Not BT-like in size but say three hundred thousand turnover. These businesses will gladly pay thousands in excess business expenses so they can write that expence off their proifit bill, and there for their tax bill. Businesses HATE tax. all businesses. So even if it decreases their profit figure, most bsuinesses dont mind since it's turnover that counts to other business people, not profit.

The goverment on the other hand will do anything to get tax in. They dont think in the long run about productivity (at least this giverment doesnt). they want as much tax as they can get. And implementing day care would cut millions off the profit figures of some companies and there for millions (possibly billions) off the over all tax received by the goverment. to then give extra tax peraks on top of that is hardly minute.

---

by Red
I'm glad to hear you say that

My daughter does see her father, although I can no longer use the word 'regularly' as he has rediscovered the joys of singledom again and is more often than not *too busy* that week (as it was he only sees her for three hours - his choice).

---

I had a dad JUST like that. He even forgets my birthday (has done on and off since i was young). that isnt love and your daughter will see this.

There was a time i wanted to be close to him but i was afrade of rejection. And now i'm certain i would have been rejected in the long run.

Do i miss having a dad? You bet.

Given a choice would i have wanted my dad to stay? No way!

Some things you are better off without.

I also dont envy anyone with a father. The grass may look greener but chances are, it's astroturf.

Just try and be a good mum (as i'm sure you are). She may hate you at some point (as kids tend to do). she may throw being a singel parent in your face (any amunition she can use). BUT, in the long run she will come to understand that you are the better person of her two parents.

whilst i never did any of the above my sister did and i witnessed the pain it caused my mum. They have a good relationship now though. Just trust she will mature and understand.

I dont think any good parent, singel or with a partner, ever feels 100% happy with their parenting. I think it's the questioning itself that makes you a good parent, knowing you arent always right and being willing to change/compromise/learn. Just try not to be too critical of yourself. A parent with low self esteme will have a hard time raining a happy child.

And i agree witht the boyfriends thing. Dont keep changing the men in her life. Keep your boyfriends for you until it's serious. Better for both you and her (IMHO). Maybe one day she will have a perfect step dad. Or maybe he'll look perfect, as mine did but end up tarnished.

Life isnt predictable. In fact sometimes it's downright hard!

Enjoy life, look out for the good times, live for each day and dont take things too sereiously. Thats my (child of a singel parent) philosophy.



(wow, that was long!)

---

by Cat
I also dont envy anyone with a father. The grass may look greener but chances are, it's astroturf.

---

I like that

---

by Cat
And i agree witht the boyfriends thing. Dont keep changing the men in her life. Keep your boyfriends for you until it's serious. Better for both you and her (IMHO).

---

It was just the one that she was hurt by unfortunately. Left me very wary of introducing her to anyone new, and it would have to be uberserious before she got involved in future.

Should point out too that she's becoming very jaded with dad slowly. Getting used to him letting her down. These days I tend to not tell her about things happening until the last minute in case for some reason they don't. But I do tend to 'bail him out' or make excuses for him to try and let her down gently. Am I wrong in doing this? I am just trying to protect her, but is it better she see *now* what he's really like?

---

by Red

Should point out too that she's becoming very jaded with dad slowly. Getting used to him letting her down. These days I tend to not tell her about things happening until the last minute in case for some reason they don't. But I do tend to 'bail him out' or make excuses for him to try and let her down gently. Am I wrong in doing this? I am just trying to protect her, but is it better she see *now* what he's really like?

---

I don't think your wrong in doing it, It's a tough call to make. I've had people tell me that I should have told my kids the real reason their dad isn't living here anymore but I really believe that , that would do them more harm than good. When their older and can understand things better and ask then I'll tell them all they need to know.

She has had enough to go through at the moment a few white lies and holding back on things that he might let her down on wont hurt her, no matter what I think all the time he is willing to have some contact with her then that needs to be made special for her, all the time she wants it to.

(Edited by Sweet-Sange 11/04/2002 09:21)

I don't think that there is so much of a stigma surounding single parents anymore.There will always be those who look down on people that they deem to be less fortunate than themselves,but apart from that, there are so many single parent families around now that its a normal circumstance.
My decision to give up work to care for my son was a difficult one to make,but I am glad I did it. I am lucky to be in the position of being in a rented house,which means I get my rent paid etc, paid for me...there are probably plenty of people who can't do that.Totalling up all the benefits and allowances I get still leaves me about £150 per week lighter than when I was working,but I decided it was time I put my family first. It isn't easy to manage,but I don't blame the benefits system for that as they do provide me with enough to survive on,which is all they are supposed to do.
Being there to take/collect Daniel from school and being in a position to focus on his needs is what I aimed for and got. When he is older I will return to work,but until then I am happy with my decision

---

by Cat
Some things you are better off without.

I also dont envy anyone with a father. The grass may look greener but chances are, it's astroturf.

---

I know you, and others on here, have had bad experiences with fathers in their lives, but I think that sentiment is rather sad.

despite what you think, not *all* fathers are useless/worthless and I certainly value and appreciate all that my father has done for me.

Your argument could quite easily apply to absent/neglectful *mothers* where the father is the one who is doing all the loving and caring. Please don't tar *all* men with the same brush. Some of are caring, and sensitive, far too much for our own good sometimes.

---

by Whistler
(quotes)Some of are caring, and sensitive, far too much for our own good sometimes.

---

Have to agree

My parents split up when I was about 9, but my mum left him (he was abusive) to be with my step-dad so I've never been been without 2 parents.

I live alone with my 2 boys, but I don't consider myself a single parent (see bottom of post for what *I* class as a single parent). Sam & Billy still have lots of contact with their dad and me & him still get on great. We just can't be together as a couple so decided to live apart as best friends. He probably sees them a lot more now than if we were a "regular" family. He'll pick them up from school on his days off, takes them swimming & to the cinema and they absolutely adore him. This set up is fine for all of us.

The only thing I worry about is if I meet someone else how will they fit into the picture? As I said Justin & I are very close and I can see it being very difficult for someone else to try to fit into our lifestyle without any jeleousy - not from Justins point of view, but from a new partners.

IMO, a single parent is someone who is solely bringing up a child on their own. I don't class myself in this catagory because their dad is still a huge part of their life before any decisions are made I *always* consult Sam & Bs dad with anything from what school shoes to buy to whether they can go to friends birthday parties etc. Maybe this will change when he meets someone else he wants to spend the rest of his life with and has another family. I totally admire anyone bringing up children on their own. I know I couldn't manage without the family support I get.

---

by Whistler
Your argument could quite easily apply to absent/neglectful *mothers* where the father is the one who is doing all the loving and caring

---

I did wonder about mentioning single fathers a while ago but apart from Connavar, I'm not aware of any on T21, although some members may have been raised by one.

I think single fathers raising a child can get an unfair deal. I have several friends, men, who are bringing up kids alone and doing a great job, but do struggle with such simple things as, for example, a lack of male baby changing facilities, or changing rooms at the swimming pool where they can take their young daughters.

They feel they aren't catered for in the world the same as single mothers, and I guess that's because a lot of people who think 'Single Parent' actually think 'Single Mother'. I know I did for a long time.

As I understand it, many public places have a growing awareness of single fathers and their needs which, to me, is a very good thing.

Cat - I think the feelings you have now regarding fathers generally are totally valid and perfectly understandable. I didn't have my father around at all when growing up either (although for different reasons to him simply leaving) and I could happily take him or leave him these days, but at the same time I can see why Whistler isn't happy with all fathers being tarred by the same brush.

Some men you instinctively know would make terrible fathers, being too selfish to ever be able to *share* their lives and no longer be the centre of their own Universe. But then there are men who have the desire and the necessary qualities to make wonderful, supportive 'Dads' and raise happy children, whether in a family unit or as a single parent (usually not by choice!)

---

by Whistler
(quotes)

I know you, and others on here, have had bad experiences with fathers in their lives, but I think that sentiment is rather sad.

despite what you think, not *all* fathers are useless/worthless and I certainly value and appreciate all that my father has done for me.

Your argument could quite easily apply to absent/neglectful *mothers* where the father is the one who is doing all the loving and caring. Please don't tar *all* men with the same brush. Some of are caring, and sensitive, far too much for our own good sometimes.

---

Please dont think that was meant to show all fathers are bad. My brother in law is an excelent father.

That statement is simply my phillosophy on life. Other peoples lives may look peachy but the chances are you dont know the whole story.

They may have a great father and a rotten mother as you say. they may have perfect parents but holes in their shoes. They may have low self esteme. They may be bulllied, abused, or have any number of horrible things happen in thir life. What you see isnt ususally the whole picture, that was my point.

I never envy anyone else anything (or i try not to).